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Post by washeduphasbeen on Apr 23, 2024 11:43:32 GMT -6
I need a little help, like I said I'm removed from the loop somewhat but if the football coaches requested October then what is the beef, other than privates taking the OSSAA to court to help their own cause. I know the summer numbers are last years numbers & October is the present, would keeping summer numbers still cause redistricting & realignment like everyone seems to think will happen with the October numbers? Just trying to get informed by those who know.
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Post by WetsuWarrior on Apr 23, 2024 12:31:14 GMT -6
Yes, redistricting has to happen regardless of when they pull the numbers.
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Post by WestSideWarrior on Apr 23, 2024 12:31:26 GMT -6
I need a little help, like I said I'm removed from the loop somewhat but if the football coaches requested October then what is the beef, other than privates taking the OSSAA to court to help their own cause. I know the summer numbers are last years numbers & October is the present, would keeping summer numbers still cause redistricting & realignment like everyone seems to think will happen with the October numbers? Just trying to get informed by those who know. Most teams do schedules in 2 year blocks. Home and Away, not just for district but also non-district games which is the biggest issue currently. Using last years numbers would have largely kept the districts the same with a few changes. By using October ADM numbers it will now move even more teams and ultimately cause quite a few districts to change, some entirely. with teams moving up and down classes it also resets the East/West balances which is what classes use to divide their districts. So when you have 2 West side teams moving into a class, it will force two current west side teams to now possibly go to the east side of the states districts. Changing their district schedule altogether. Maybe they need that same west side team needs go to into the more western East side district, forcing one of those teams tot he far west district now, and so on. So it can have sweeping impacts on a lot of teams. This also changes travel for a lot of schools and can now effect budgets unexpectedly. This will also likely lead to a lot of rescheduling of non-district games, as now some teams have become district opponents and will play instead later in the season by default. All that said, the the privates also self-report their own quarterly ADM numbers, so you can rest assured no one will be moving up off ADM anywhere.
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Post by washeduphasbeen on Apr 24, 2024 7:48:51 GMT -6
I appreciate the assistance, looking from the outside in these days it appears that McGuinness had no real desire to be bumped up into 6A-2 and that prompted the legal action. We always scheduled in two year blocks to coincide with redistricting. Never can remember using October numbers during that time, we seemed to have everything done in the late summer and fall before October numbers came out. October numbers are a more realistic than using what I call the May numbers which was from the last school year. If the OFBCA requested the October numbers then that had to add to the uncertainty that's out there right now. I know the OSSAA wanted something called a success ranking and the October numbers would work with the "success ratings" and the OSSAA will add all that up when they split teams into east & west districts. Anyway, it has been and will continue to be an interesting process. No one will be totally happy with however it ends up
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Post by WestSideWarrior on Apr 24, 2024 8:46:19 GMT -6
Agreed. I think the best thing for now would be a hard reset, all teams play in their respective ADMs as listed. Then have teams promote and relegate based on a success criteria. ALL teams. Do it on a 3 year cycle or something, however they can make it work the most seamless. If a Wagoner, Lincoln and Carl Albert continue to be dominant, they move up to the next class. The teams that are in a class above their ADM have a criteria to avoid relegating back down the next 3 year cycle, such as if they make a final 4 in two out of 3 years then they stay in the classification. If they don't, they drop down a class, the lowest any team can drop is their actual ADM class.
Or
use a Multiplier use for the private schools' ADMs like other states do.
or
Break them off into their own association.
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Post by fballcoach50 on Apr 24, 2024 8:57:57 GMT -6
2A would hate that. More importantly 2A-1. All those privates would be in that class
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Post by TOBC on Apr 24, 2024 9:18:34 GMT -6
Agreed. I think the best thing for now would be a hard reset, all teams play in their respective ADMs as listed. Then have teams promote and relegate based on a success criteria. ALL teams. Do it on a 3 year cycle or something, however they can make it work the most seamless. If a Wagoner, Lincoln and Carl Albert continue to be dominant, they move up to the next class. The teams that are in a class above their ADM have a criteria to avoid relegating back down the next 3 year cycle, such as if they make a final 4 in two out of 3 years then they stay in the classification. If they don't, they drop down a class, the lowest any team can drop is their actual ADM class. Or use a Multiplier use for the private schools' ADMs like other states do. or Break them off into their own association. do not like idea #1. why should publics have a success multiplier? they can't recruit and they can't control their ADM. i'm sure some will get on here and say well.......wagoner recruits, CA recruits, blah blah blah. no they don't. they recruit by their success. they don't have flunkies out there like lincoln, cascia, etc who will actually go up to a kid, or use a proxy that knows the parents, and actively try to talk to them about coming to their school. i like idea #2. and really like idea #3.
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Post by washeduphasbeen on Apr 24, 2024 9:53:26 GMT -6
Agreed. I think the best thing for now would be a hard reset, all teams play in their respective ADMs as listed. Then have teams promote and relegate based on a success criteria. ALL teams. Do it on a 3 year cycle or something, however they can make it work the most seamless. If a Wagoner, Lincoln and Carl Albert continue to be dominant, they move up to the next class. The teams that are in a class above their ADM have a criteria to avoid relegating back down the next 3 year cycle, such as if they make a final 4 in two out of 3 years then they stay in the classification. If they don't, they drop down a class, the lowest any team can drop is their actual ADM class. Or use a Multiplier use for the private schools' ADMs like other states do. or Break them off into their own association. do not like idea #1. why should publics have a success multiplier? they can't recruit and they can't control their ADM. i'm sure some will get on here and say well.......wagoner recruits, CA recruits, blah blah blah. no they don't. they recruit by their success. they don't have flunkies out there like lincoln, cascia, etc who will actually go up to a kid, or use a proxy that knows the parents, and actively try to talk to them about coming to their school. i like idea #2. and really like idea #3. The CA's of the public world do "recruit" by their success. Kids want to come to these places for a chance to win a state title. I think the Carl Albert's of the world would not like being bumped into 6A-2, or Wagoner being bumped into 5A, or Washington bumped to 3A because of their success when they still cannot control ADM's like the privates can.
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Post by WestSideWarrior on Apr 24, 2024 10:08:34 GMT -6
Agreed. I think the best thing for now would be a hard reset, all teams play in their respective ADMs as listed. Then have teams promote and relegate based on a success criteria. ALL teams. Do it on a 3 year cycle or something, however they can make it work the most seamless. If a Wagoner, Lincoln and Carl Albert continue to be dominant, they move up to the next class. The teams that are in a class above their ADM have a criteria to avoid relegating back down the next 3 year cycle, such as if they make a final 4 in two out of 3 years then they stay in the classification. If they don't, they drop down a class, the lowest any team can drop is their actual ADM class. Or use a Multiplier use for the private schools' ADMs like other states do. or Break them off into their own association. do not like idea #1. why should publics have a success multiplier? they can't recruit and they can't control their ADM. i'm sure some will get on here and say well.......wagoner recruits, CA recruits, blah blah blah. no they don't. they recruit by their success. they don't have flunkies out there like lincoln, cascia, etc who will actually go up to a kid, or use a proxy that knows the parents, and actively try to talk to them about coming to their school. i like idea #2. and really like idea #3. That option would just be one to ensure Private class promotion while also keeping it equivalent for both sides. Otherwise back to the lawsuits we go. I would prefer #3, then #2. There many states that use a multiplier rule to great effect. They take the total number of private schools in the state and calculate the average athletics participation percentage for all the private schools - Then use that number as the multiplier on the ADMs. So if on average the private schools have 35% of their student populations enrolled in athletics, and their ADM was 100, 100 x 1.35 = 135. So 135 would be the ADM used for classification purposes.
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Post by TOBC on Apr 24, 2024 10:13:39 GMT -6
i don't have a problem with multipliers used on privates. i don't want it used on publics.
and when i say "flunkies", i'm referring to the AAU guys that coach these kids in their travel stuff and will then take underhanded money from certain private schools to get the kids to go there.
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Post by S.M.C. on Apr 24, 2024 10:41:33 GMT -6
Any word on when/if they'll release the numbers to the public before any other major decisions are made?
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Post by jakesully on Apr 24, 2024 10:42:27 GMT -6
This is getting ridiculous What is the hold up
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Post by washeduphasbeen on Apr 24, 2024 11:56:03 GMT -6
This is getting ridiculous What is the hold up The October numbers are with the State Department of Education, changes to the amount of state aid allocated are raised or lowered based on the October numbers. It's a good bet the districts are already aware of their adjustments based on those numbers. Either the State Dept hasn't made those numbers available to the OSSAA, or they have and the OSSAA hasn't made those numbers public. Obviously the quicker they get those numbers out, the better, I agree, it is ridiculous and frustrating to those who are ready to redistrict & possibly reschedule.
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