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Post by moxWASmybackup on Jan 9, 2018 9:52:44 GMT -6
So this is that terribly boring point of the year for me as a credit recovery teacher and 100% football guy. (Track is more a distraction for me then anything else.) That being said, I am a big H-Back guy and am wondering if any of you other fine folk have some information to shed on different way you utilize that guy. Additionally, if you are running with an H-Back in the game (Gun stuff) are you a pistol or offset guy. Why / why not?
Lets talk ball, not balls.
Sorry Burnet
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Post by Hitch on Jan 9, 2018 10:03:29 GMT -6
We run a H-back package. Offset shotgun
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Post by Hitch on Jan 9, 2018 10:04:11 GMT -6
We really run it when we have a hammer at the H-back that can also catch.
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Post by Hitch on Jan 9, 2018 10:05:25 GMT -6
Also, if you have hammer that can also catch, you can easily move to spread and get mis-matches with defenses who put a 'heavier' package in.
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Post by moxWASmybackup on Jan 9, 2018 10:07:11 GMT -6
We really run it when we have a hammer at the H-back that can also catch. We ran a lot of power / counter stuff. Some outside zone, a little split zone / inside zone stuff. Really only got the H-back involved in the passing game on nakeds and such. Our guy was more a FB type. Why offset instead of Pistol? We were Pistol 100% of the time, but I'm less and less convinced that's the way to go. |
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Post by Hitch on Jan 9, 2018 10:09:29 GMT -6
We call it strong/weak. we can always motion the H-back from one side to the other. offset for blocking angles. The RB was either offset at qb depth or pistol. H-back is always offset about 1 yard behind o'line.
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Post by TOBC on Jan 9, 2018 10:11:16 GMT -6
we ran it out of pistol. our H wasn't really a hammer type guy. he also played OLB for us. big enough to be a blocker, but athletic enough to run out into the flats and catch.
mainly ran outside zone, some inside zone, iso, power, counter with him. also would put him in a slot in 2x2 and empty looks when a defense would bring in a heavy package.
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Post by blitz50 on Jan 9, 2018 10:12:31 GMT -6
We have run a lot of H back gun. We are offset. We like offset because there is more options. Say we are running counter. We can run counter normal, We can run stretch with the TB and read an invert and either give the st or run q Ctr. etc.
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Post by tcb on Jan 9, 2018 10:15:09 GMT -6
We only have 6 letters playing, but H is one of them....we pitch him the ball a lot!
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Post by moxWASmybackup on Jan 9, 2018 10:23:24 GMT -6
Thats what I am trying to get to the bottom of. We ran a bunch of outside zone out of pistol, stretch option, veer, some speed but again ALL out of pistol. Were I didn't like the mesh and back fit was on plays like inside zone and counter, which I LOVE. Any ideas on running inside zone out of pistol set? Seems hard for back to hit a cut back if its there, especially when we are running split zone.
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Post by moxWASmybackup on Jan 9, 2018 10:24:56 GMT -6
We only have 6 letters playing, but H is one of them....we pitch him the ball a lot! classic. We use an H-back (just call him a TE in our offense) about 50% of the time. Have some passes designed but mainly just a glorified lineman for us. He lines up according to the play, not the formation. Our guy was similar, i.e. if we ran power he would bring his alignment in and up to get better angles. Coaching point was always put yourself in a situation where you can be successful. Like blocking that mutha freaking 5 tech. |
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Post by Hitch on Jan 9, 2018 10:26:16 GMT -6
try running it like midline. Just a suggestion. You could evolve that into zone read as well.
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Post by moxWASmybackup on Jan 9, 2018 10:30:54 GMT -6
try running it like midline. Just a suggestion. You could evolve that into zone read as well. Zone Read is in the package, but got away from that when we ran a lot of power read / counter read with a jet motion. Really just want to run more inside zone. The more I'm up on a board drawing up power the more I end up suggesting to myself "why not run inside zone" guarantee double teams, more movement upfront. |
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Post by Hitch on Jan 9, 2018 11:37:57 GMT -6
You asked about the mesh point issue. Let's say you're running IZ to the right; have the qb open like midline left, he could read the EMOLS if you want or just a token mesh. The back goes STRAIGHT ahead and then bends to the right. Again, just a suggestion. You could PA off of it or PAP or RPO.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 11:55:57 GMT -6
I think the difference in pistol and offset is what youre trying to accomplish. If its a more downhill physical style 2 back run game with very little to no backside read game then stay in pistol, if you want to add that element of 2 back run game with some backside reads (or other read versions) then might want to get in offset some. Also if you want to be able to get both backs into routes quicker then offset. For the mesh we did it like midline basically. If it was IZ right our QB always put but to hole and stepped off the line, the RB worked to edge of hip and at the mesh he would be angling to PS A gap. We ran IZ read as an A to A gap play. We would also run regular zone where QB opened and it was just downhill no read (used this to set up naked). We used the H back in a lot of ways as a WR/TE/RB true flex guy for us. But we did the traditional split zone, lead zone, H counter, 2 back power stuff, but we also used him in QB read game. So instead of split zone he would work around the EMOL/read guy and work up the alley to block for QB if he got the pull key. We would put another RB as H and use him in option game a bit. So he could be pitch or dive man etc.
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Post by Hitch on Jan 9, 2018 12:04:01 GMT -6
gt, do you work in Texas?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 13:23:44 GMT -6
No I am Gary Tuell, was the OC/OL at Sapulpa the last 2 years and spent previous 3 at Coweta where I worked for Jay Wilkinson and Bubba Burcham.
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Post by moxWASmybackup on Jan 9, 2018 13:44:15 GMT -6
I guess more or less my issue comes with running pure IZ (no read) from the pistol and working to my back be able to still bend or bounce. Sure its easy to cram from pistol. But it seems like less and less kids are able to hit that great jump cut and get backside or out the gate. I agree, if you are running IZ or zone read from the pistol you have to have QB open up like midline. I guess my only thing with staying pistol is it does allow me to motion out of straight spread from either side and not really give a tendency.
We ran more power then IZ though so mesh and aiming points were never a huge problem.
How do you guys personnel your H-Back? For what we do he is a FB type kid, probably our 5th best linebacker type kid.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 13:47:05 GMT -6
For us we have 2 different kind of H backs, we have the true flex kid who can line up in slot or TE or in the backfield, just keep it simple for him. Then we have our undersized OL kid who strictly is for blocking.
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Post by moxWASmybackup on Jan 9, 2018 14:04:57 GMT -6
For us we have 2 different kind of H backs, we have the true flex kid who can line up in slot or TE or in the backfield, just keep it simple for him. Then we have our undersized OL kid who strictly is for blocking. A kid I had a couple years ago would have been my prototypical H-Back he was just so dam soft. 6'2'' 230+ very quick feet, soft hands. Didn't like contact unless he had the football. Somebody made the mistake of letting him believe he was a tailback just because his pop warner / middle school coaches wanted to turn around and hand the football to the biggest kid on the field. H-Back is a tough spot to personnel. No doubt the tone setter for my offense. |
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