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Post by newcoach on Feb 28, 2018 11:07:24 GMT -6
I dont think it would deter them really. If you look at the statistics most of them go down either at their own hand or at the hand of the cops. I do believe that it should be my option to protect myself. I hate that it has come to this but I would carry if it was allowed. I'm with ya on this. I don't know that any of them expect, nor want to survive. the first step is the outer perimeter of schools being a soft target. that has to stop somehow. I look at it this way too: If I have a gun I have a choice. I can choose to protect my students in the room, I can choose to go out and confront the gunman, I can choose to act in a way that if in the best interest of the students. Without it I cannot do any of those. I have no idea what I would do if given the opportunity but I'd rather find out with it than without it.
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Post by moxWASmybackup on Feb 28, 2018 11:07:35 GMT -6
texas is no different. we can't fund what we have already. paying more salaries for officers (most of our school officers come from the school police dept. this offers a problem all it's own because these are usually incompetents or people wanting quiet path to retirement... not exactly the type willing to get in there and mix it up), also paying for something like metal detectors and people to operate them would be more cost than most states can afford. So then we end up doing it locally through bonds, which means that about half the districts will not get them, and large city districts probably won't have them at all. man, if only there was some kind of tax fund out there that we could take from....maybe if there was one that people take complete advantage of.....you know, the ones where they use their money for drugs and alcohol and studs money for diapers and hot dogs.... 2nd!!!
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Post by fbs on Feb 28, 2018 11:12:33 GMT -6
I think a big help for school funding, and I can't believe I'm even gonna say it, would be a state income tax. I don't think we can honestly say that arming our teachers to be able to shoot our children is a better plan than raising a state tax to help fund metal detectors and a TRAINED school police force. that's my biggest worry, is that some slap@ss with a god complex has some kid attack him and he shoots the kid or at the very least draws on him, citing his right to defend himself. the context of any situation that arms a teacher will have to either consider this or face being the district that has to deal with the first case of this happening.
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Post by fbs on Feb 28, 2018 11:15:04 GMT -6
just think about this though... cops come in to a shooter situation, they don't know who or what they are looking for. they see someone, anyone, with a gun they have to assume that's the shooter, and bam... down goes teacher with a gun. I think we've learned the hard way with this florida thing that we can't trust the training of law enforcement, so why would I trust them not to run in and shoot me if I was carrying? Which would work with what bigbob was saying. Addendum: LEO's and head principal will know who is packing. That training he was talking about would be done with local LEO's. That way you can have a concerted team effort in sweeping a school, or stopping them. Here is another problem. The dude in Florida did what he was trained to do. You don't go in if you are out gunned. Do all LEO's or these open carry folks have access to the same arsenal? That is the problem anybody with a brain has with any of these large capacity mag weapons. Semi with 30 beats the h3ll out of a semi with 14 bullets. Like this conversation. Good ideas. I wouldn't think of it that way. from 30 feet away, I don't care what you're using, it's gonna work. not only that, it's not like we're talking about an old west gunfight where the street clears and you draw on eachother. I imagine a more frantic situation where you might be able to get him before he even sees you coming. that said, if I can have a small gun to his big one, or nothing at all versus his big one, I'll take it.
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Post by xdipster on Feb 28, 2018 21:19:24 GMT -6
Looks like the one to worry about wasn't Obama after all. Trump said he wants to take the guns, and worry about due process later. I wonder if NRA put him up to it to boost sagging gun sales. This is funny. Would be like if Dem's voted for their guy to limit drone strikes, and then.....dang it. Never mind.
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Post by almichaels on Feb 28, 2018 21:26:49 GMT -6
just think about this though... cops come in to a shooter situation, they don't know who or what they are looking for. they see someone, anyone, with a gun they have to assume that's the shooter, and bam... down goes teacher with a gun. I think we've learned the hard way with this florida thing that we can't trust the training of law enforcement, so why would I trust them not to run in and shoot me if I was carrying? Which would work with what bigbob was saying. Addendum: LEO's and head principal will know who is packing. That training he was talking about would be done with local LEO's. That way you can have a concerted team effort in sweeping a school, or stopping them. Here is another problem. The dude in Florida did what he was trained to do. You don't go in if you are out gunned. Do all LEO's or these open carry folks have access to the same arsenal? That is the problem anybody with a brain has with any of these large capacity mag weapons. Semi with 30 beats the h3ll out of a semi with 14 bullets. Like this conversation. Good ideas. After Columbine, the active shooter training changed. If an officer arrived at an active shooter incident, the standard procedure is to make entry, locate, and engage the shooter.
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Post by fbs on Feb 28, 2018 21:34:12 GMT -6
I think a big help for school funding, and I can't believe I'm even gonna say it, would be a state income tax. I don't think we can honestly say that arming our teachers to be able to shoot our children is a better plan than raising a state tax to help fund metal detectors and a TRAINED school police force. Lotto was supposed to fund schools, which was a lie put on by Ann Richards. That’s the story in Texas anyway. I guess in okie y’all could just raise the price of beaver pelts.
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Post by almichaels on Feb 28, 2018 21:35:41 GMT -6
Research shows armed encounters between law enforcement and a bad guy is an average distance of 15-20 feet. In those encounters a trained police officer hits the target 18% of the time. How accurate will a teacher under stress with significantly less training be?
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Post by fbs on Feb 28, 2018 21:39:42 GMT -6
Research shows armed encounters between law enforcement and a bad guy is an average distance of 15-20 feet. In those encounters a trained police officer hits the target 18% of the time. How accurate will a teacher under stress with significantly less training be? Roughly the same as the shooter... consider that the shooter probably has the same amount of training, and is probably a kid. At that range the caliber of the guns means little
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Post by almichaels on Feb 28, 2018 21:45:44 GMT -6
Research shows armed encounters between law enforcement and a bad guy is an average distance of 15-20 feet. In those encounters a trained police officer hits the target 18% of the time. How accurate will a teacher under stress with significantly less training be? Roughly the same as the shooter... consider that the shooter probably has the same amount of training, and is probably a kid. At that range the caliber of the guns means little Every bullet you launch down range goes somewhere. If you squeeze 5 off, one will hit the bad guy if you're lucky, the other 4 will end up somewhere. If that somewhere is in a fleeing kid or staff member, that's a huge problem. We've got parents pissed that we yell at them now. I can't imagine what would happen if one got caught in a crossfire situation.
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Post by mrwig on Feb 28, 2018 21:51:10 GMT -6
I think a big help for school funding, and I can't believe I'm even gonna say it, would be a state income tax. I don't think we can honestly say that arming our teachers to be able to shoot our children is a better plan than raising a state tax to help fund metal detectors and a TRAINED school police force. Lotto was supposed to fund schools, which was a lie put on by Ann Richards. That’s the story in Texas anyway. I guess in okie y’all could just raise the price of beaver pelts. they used the word "help" in the documentations while during the push for it they said "will go to".........got screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by xdipster on Feb 28, 2018 21:59:08 GMT -6
I think a big help for school funding, and I can't believe I'm even gonna say it, would be a state income tax. I don't think we can honestly say that arming our teachers to be able to shoot our children is a better plan than raising a state tax to help fund metal detectors and a TRAINED school police force. Lotto was supposed to fund schools, which was a lie put on by Ann Richards. That’s the story in Texas anyway. I guess in okie y’all could just raise the price of beaver pelts. Hard to find a hairy beaver these days. Why we were fully funded in the 70's. Richards stuff was correct. All lottos at state levels average 80% in admin costs. So it does employ people, but only 20% ever goes to where it is designed. And this is a great page turn.
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Post by xdipster on Feb 28, 2018 22:05:05 GMT -6
Which would work with what bigbob was saying. Addendum: LEO's and head principal will know who is packing. That training he was talking about would be done with local LEO's. That way you can have a concerted team effort in sweeping a school, or stopping them. Here is another problem. The dude in Florida did what he was trained to do. You don't go in if you are out gunned. Do all LEO's or these open carry folks have access to the same arsenal? That is the problem anybody with a brain has with any of these large capacity mag weapons. Semi with 30 beats the h3ll out of a semi with 14 bullets. Like this conversation. Good ideas. After Columbine, the active shooter training changed. If an officer arrived at an active shooter incident, the standard procedure is to make entry, locate, and engage the shooter. Even if outgunned? I thought first thing all LEOs were trained to do is get back to their families. That means risk assessment.
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Post by xdipster on Feb 28, 2018 22:15:43 GMT -6
Research shows armed encounters between law enforcement and a bad guy is an average distance of 15-20 feet. In those encounters a trained police officer hits the target 18% of the time. How accurate will a teacher under stress with significantly less training be? Saw a meme that talked about how Chris Kyle was killed by a madman. Chris Kyle was a decorated SEAL. So our teachers need to be just a little better trained than him. Extreme over simplification, but it does make two points. 1. Arming teachers needs to be thought out a lot better than the fast track it seems it's on. 2. Kyle, with all his faults, doesn't deserve to be used in this manner. Dude saved a ton of men.
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Post by almichaels on Feb 28, 2018 22:39:59 GMT -6
After Columbine, the active shooter training changed. If an officer arrived at an active shooter incident, the standard procedure is to make entry, locate, and engage the shooter. Even if outgunned? I thought first thing all LEOs were trained to do is get back to their families. That means risk assessment. Yes sir, even if outgunned. In the words of the intstructor that conducted the training, 'Sometimes its a bad day to be a cop."
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Post by Burnet44 on Feb 28, 2018 23:36:15 GMT -6
Bad idea to arm teachers Especially you NN’s here If teachers wanted to be cops let them be cops Think of the teachers at your school packing heat 99.99% of them are probably a danger to society And people want to arm them? Schools won’t even buy enough paper and this is gonna get funded? Lawsuit city. Bad idea very bad idea Think of 10 of your teachers who could even finish po po school? Cue Police Academy Yeah arm teachers pass vouchers and see enrollment increase? Yeah right AOYFPD
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Post by fbs on Mar 1, 2018 7:05:26 GMT -6
Lotto was supposed to fund schools, which was a lie put on by Ann Richards. That’s the story in Texas anyway. I guess in okie y’all could just raise the price of beaver pelts. Hard to find a hairy beaver these days. Why we were fully funded in the 70's. Richards stuff was correct. All lottos at state levels average 80% in admin costs. So it does employ people, but only 20% ever goes to where it is designed. And this is a great page turn. if richards stuff was correct then why didn't it happen?
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Post by moxWASmybackup on Mar 1, 2018 8:32:17 GMT -6
Dangit, he who can't be named posted a gem of a post that I would love to tear apart. But can't risk the baboon status that comes with it! 2nd
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Post by fbs on Mar 1, 2018 9:01:28 GMT -6
Did dip just say he wanted to look at Ann Richards beaver? And run his nose up and down it, just sniffing and wafting
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Post by xdipster on Mar 1, 2018 9:26:33 GMT -6
Hard to find a hairy beaver these days. Why we were fully funded in the 70's. Richards stuff was correct. All lottos at state levels average 80% in admin costs. So it does employ people, but only 20% ever goes to where it is designed. And this is a great page turn. if richards stuff was correct then why didn't it happen? I was saying your Richard's stuff was correct. Promised the moon with only a known 20% return. TOPS
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